Subject: Re: CVSup collections for a NetBSD CVS tree
To: Brian D Chase <>
From: D'Arcy" "J.M. <>
List: current-users
Date: 05/02/1999 07:22:36
Thus spake Brian D Chase
> On Sat, 1 May 1999, Greg A. Woods wrote:
> > > Surely what the NetBSD community is (and should be) aware of is the
> > > truth: that if you run NetBSD, then there's a good chance that you
> > > simply *can't* run CVSUp, even if you wanted to.
> > 
> > s/good//
> > 
> > Yes, I know that.  It seems though that some folks think this would make
> > NetBSD look bad to in some way, though I can't imagine why, especially
> > since it would seem that not having CVSup even for a few platforms is
> > already making NetBSD look bad to some folks (eg. me! ;-)
> Ahhhhhh... So wait, NetBSD is bad because CVSup doesn't run on all of its
> supported platforms, but now you're effectively saying it's my VAX's fault
> that CVSup was written in Modula-3?  You're a weirdo.

I am sure that there is some way to go from what Greg said to what you
said but I just can't fathom it.  How do you get to that from what Greg
said.  He never talked about the goals or motives of the M3 developers
at all.  He also never said that NetBSD was bad.  If he thought that,
would he care what ran on it?

> > Or alpha or m86k or sparc, all of which I run (or at least own), and all
> > of which are supportable by the existing M3 compiler.  ;-)  I have a DEC
> > PMAX, and potentially a vaxstation too, but I can easily make use of the
> > sources I CVSup on one of the other machines via NFS or some other
> > high-speed local file sharing mechanism.  I'm also almost certain anyone
> > serious enough to want to use CVSup can dredge up a junk 486 or even
> > pentium (especially after new years 2000!) and get NetBSD running on it
> > with CVSup too.
> Okay... Let's draw a socio-politically charged parallel to this line of
> thinking.  And this is probably a good way to illustrate why a good number
> of NetBSDers are ethically opposed to embracing any software like CVSup.
> CVSup is a speedy new flight service between Los Angeles and Perth,
> Australia.  With CVSup, it now only takes 1hr of travel time to make the
> journey.
> Now let's say that my NetBSD/alpha box is someone who's white, my
> NetBSD/i386 PC is someone who's white with blonde hair and blue eyes, my
> NetBSD/arm32 box is someone who's black, my NetBSD/vax system is a latino,
> and my NetBSD/m68k box is of asian descent.
>     CVSup is great, it's fast, comfortable.  It's everything you'd ever
>     want in the way of international travel!  However, there are a few
>     trivial and insignificant restrictions for being able to fly CVSup.
>     You can't fly CVSup unless you're white (or really white).  If you're
>     black, latino, asian, or something else... well that's your own fault.
>     These restrictons shouldn't be much of a concern though, since most
>     everyone is white anyhow.

So Greg is a racist now?  Look, pointing out that you are purposely making
s socio-politically charged parallel doesn't make your straw man any less
straw-filled.  There is absolutely no reason to drag this discussion down
into this particular muck.

Then again, Greg should be happy.  The fence sitters should be dropping
onto his side in order to distance themselves from your remarks.

> I like NetBSD because it doesn't discriminate against my systems.  NetBSD
> aspires to assimilate and integrate all platforms on as equal of a footing
> as it possibly can.  It's philosophy is a long term one which isn't afraid
> to endure a little inconvenience over the short term.  My slogan of choice
> for NetBSD would be "No Compromises", because I admire that quality about
> NetBSD even if it is sometimes impractical.

Just what, exactly, would you be losing if other ports were to have some
capability that you don't?  All of your existing programs, including sup,
would continue to run exactly as they do now.

D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy@{druid|vex}.net>   |  Democracy is three wolves                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 424 2871     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.