On Sat, 1 May 1999, Greg A. Woods wrote:
> [ On Friday, April 30, 1999 at 22:56:21 (-0700), Jonathan Stone wrote: ]

> [snip]
>
> > Surely what the NetBSD community is (and should be) aware of is the
> > truth: that if you run NetBSD, then there's a good chance that you
> > simply *can't* run CVSUp, even if you wanted to.
> 
> s/good//
> 
> Yes, I know that.  It seems though that some folks think this would make
> NetBSD look bad to in some way, though I can't imagine why, especially
> since it would seem that not having CVSup even for a few platforms is
> already making NetBSD look bad to some folks (eg. me! ;-)

Ahhhhhh... So wait, NetBSD is bad because CVSup doesn't run on all of its
supported platforms, but now you're effectively saying it's my VAX's fault
that CVSup was written in Modula-3?  You're a weirdo.

> > Greg, *what* entrenched user base?
> 
> I meant that in the future tense -- i.e. the entrenched user base
> that'll exist if an equally capable alternative doesn't meet CVSup at
> the starting gate.

My Magic 8-Ball tells me "Signs point to MAYBE."

> [snip]
> 
> > Just how is the fact that Modula-3 implementations dont exist for most
> > NetBSD ports `propaganda'? How is the fact that there are no extant
> > SRC Modula-3 ports for some of the CPU architectures NetBSD runs  `propaganda'?
> 
> I didn't mean that w.r.t. anything about M3.  I meant that only about
> those who've said there might be something better than the current
> implementation of CVSup, be it a re-implementation or even a new
> protocol.

We were just thinking about that in the future tense.  You know, someday
there will be a better way to do this than CVSup.

> > The only propaganda I see is the 
> >    ``All the worlds an x86, or at least all the world I care about,
> >     so screw  *you* if you want fast, effective access to the CVS
> >     repository from other platforms''
> > message -- the one you articulate so well.
> 
> Or alpha or m86k or sparc, all of which I run (or at least own), and all
> of which are supportable by the existing M3 compiler.  ;-)  I have a DEC
> PMAX, and potentially a vaxstation too, but I can easily make use of the
> sources I CVSup on one of the other machines via NFS or some other
> high-speed local file sharing mechanism.  I'm also almost certain anyone
> serious enough to want to use CVSup can dredge up a junk 486 or even
> pentium (especially after new years 2000!) and get NetBSD running on it
> with CVSup too.

Okay... Let's draw a socio-politically charged parallel to this line of
thinking.  And this is probably a good way to illustrate why a good number
of NetBSDers are ethically opposed to embracing any software like CVSup.
CVSup is a speedy new flight service between Los Angeles and Perth,
Australia.  With CVSup, it now only takes 1hr of travel time to make the
journey.

Now let's say that my NetBSD/alpha box is someone who's white, my
NetBSD/i386 PC is someone who's white with blonde hair and blue eyes, my
NetBSD/arm32 box is someone who's black, my NetBSD/vax system is a latino,
and my NetBSD/m68k box is of asian descent.

    CVSup is great, it's fast, comfortable.  It's everything you'd ever
    want in the way of international travel!  However, there are a few
    trivial and insignificant restrictions for being able to fly CVSup.
    You can't fly CVSup unless you're white (or really white).  If you're
    black, latino, asian, or something else... well that's your own fault.
    These restrictons shouldn't be much of a concern though, since most
    everyone is white anyhow.

I like NetBSD because it doesn't discriminate against my systems.  NetBSD
aspires to assimilate and integrate all platforms on as equal of a footing
as it possibly can.  It's philosophy is a long term one which isn't afraid
to endure a little inconvenience over the short term.  My slogan of choice
for NetBSD would be "No Compromises", because I admire that quality about
NetBSD even if it is sometimes impractical.

CVSup is good at what it does for the platforms upon which it runs. The
NetBSD community should acknowledge and accept CVSup.  But from a
philosophical standpoint, I would be upset if it were embraced or even
supported by the NetBSD community.

-brian.
---
Brian "JARAI" Chase | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ | VAXZilla LIVES!!!