[ On Saturday, May 1, 1999 at 00:18:38 (-0400), Aidan Cully wrote: ]
> Subject: Re: CVSup collections for a NetBSD CVS tree
>
> FWIW, I've used CVSup on FreeBSD, and I don't think there should be a
> cvsup.netbsd.org.  For NetBSD to provide a machine in the netbsd.org
> domain would make it look like we were advocating CVSup as a
> distribution mechanism for anyone that wants to run NetBSD, which is
> the wrong message to send when it doesn't run on all of our platforms.

Meanwhile in other threads NetBSD folks are crying about how hard it is
to promote NetBSD and to make it available to users.  It's no wonder we
can't win -- we're being beat over the head by our very own community!

I *have* heard FreeBSDers lambaste NetBSD for not using CVSup (and I
suspect the frequency of name-calling will drastically increase once
NetBSD has a public CVS repository that can't be CVSup'ed).

The NetBSD community should be saying that if you run NetBSD then you
*can* use CVSup, even if only on a somewhat limited set of (the most
popular) platforms for the time being.

The NetBSD community should not be saying that you can't use CVSup with
NetBSD.  You might not think you're saying that (as you've tried to
claim), but that's most definitely the message that comes across.

New tools like this can never make headway in this position unless the
first available platforms actually implement them.  Only then will there
be any incentive to improve the completeness of their support.  There is
no "bad message" sent to anyone by choosing to supprt them.  Quite the
contrary -- this should present a challenge to the users on unsupported
platforms to do the port so that they're not left out.  If such a
challenge is successful in porting a tool like this to all platforms
then a truly positive and powerful message about the strength and
support of the NetBSD community would result!

Anyone who thinks refusing to support CVSup because it isn't immediately
supported on all available NetBSD platforms is a good thing is playing
ostrich in an ivory tower with no windows.  Anyone who promotes this
refusal is sending a powerful message that NetBSD is really a closed
community and they won't accept anything they don't select and control.
Get your heads out of the sand and get out of the tower and have a look
up and down the beach at what other people are having fun at.  NetBSD
would still only run on PCs if this kind of silly attitude had been
prevalent in the beginning (and indeed some argue that's really why
FreeBSD forked off!).  I guess this is what astounds me so much about
this strange attitude some people seem to have, even when they're only
here because NetBSD had initially opened up and welcomed their quirky
platorm into the fold.  Come on people!  Do you really want to send the
message that NetBSD is a cliquish group of ivory tower shut-ins that are
completely afraid of new ideas and think only they know what's good for
them?

For those of you who aren't so much worried about the "message" this
would supposedly send, but are more concerned about the viability of
CVSup itself, then hurry up and get something ready before the
repository is made available.  You'll have a hell of a time competing
against an entrenched user base unless you can offer even more amazing
benefits, but if you meet CVSup head on with a similar benefits list at
the very beginning then you'll have a fighting chance.  In the mean time
your propaganda is only that:  propaganda.

-- 
							Greg A. Woods

+1 416 218-0098      VE3TCP      <gwoods@acm.org>      <robohack!woods>
Planix, Inc. <woods@planix.com>; Secrets of the Weird <woods@weird.com>