Subject: Re: copyright questions
To: Jim Wise <>
From: Ted Lemon <>
List: current-users
Date: 06/13/1997 19:39:01
> Not at all.  The point is simple:  A change this large in the license
> terms of the code we all use should have been raised on the mailing
> lists before being accepted in the tree.

This is not a large change.

> This is ridiculous, IMHO.  Of course I am not asking that anyone but
> core make this decision.  I have said that I have serious problems with
> Chris's license terms, and I have likewise said that if core accepts
> them then they are part of NetBSD whether I have problems with them or
> not.

So you're saying that even though, as is self-evident, the only result
of discussion on this topic will be flamage, core should still bring
it up before making a decision.   That makes absolutely no sense to me
at all.

> This is not asking that anyone but core will make the final
> decision, but it seems clear, for example, that core did not realize
> how big an issue Chris's license changes would be (perhaps someone
> more qualified than myself can comment on this?), and an
> announcement to current-users might well have eased a lot of the
> hard feelings you are seeing...

In this entire orgasm of flamage, NOT ONE PERSON has said ``this
change will effect me personally in the following, specific, negative
way.''   NOBODY.   NOT ONE PERSON.   Why is that, do you think?

> > Look at the evidence before you!  This flame war will probably still
> > be going on at Usenix, and the changes Chris has made to the
> > copyright, whether you want to acknowledge it or not, are *trivial* to
> > anybody who was already willing to act in good faith.  If core had
> > consulted you on this issue, NetBSD on the alpha would be dead in the
> > water!
> It is not clear to me that you are reading my posts before responding.
> I will be glad to continue this discussion in private mail, but it is
> not clear to me that this type of attack serves any purpose in a public
> forum.

So what is it about the paragraph that you quoted that you disagree
with?  It says that this flamage will go on until Usenix.  Do you
disagree with that?  It says the changes to the copyright are trivial
to anybody acting in good faith.  You obviously disagree with that,
but have yet to justify your disagreement with any actual evidence of
a real problem that a real person is having.  I then go on to say that
if core had waited for the outcome of the flamewar before approving
Chris's copyright for inclusion in the tree, we would still be arguing
about it and NetBSD/alpha would be dead in the water.  Do you disagree
with that?

You do make one point that I think is valid - that at some time, Core
should have announced this copyright, since its terms are a bit
different than we're accustomed to.  However, the right time to do
that probably would have been with the 1.3 release.  Since Thomas
brought it up before the release, we can never know for sure whether
or not core would have done the right thing here.

Having tipped back a few beers with various NetBSDers in the past
year or so, though, I can say that they have been planning to come up
with a comprehensive COPYRIGHT file for quite some time that listed
all the contributors and their copyrights.   So it is my belief that
had Thomas not brought this up, it would have been addressed in due
time anyway.